Welcome And Meet Melanie Bell

Speaker 0:10

Hi, and welcome to The Fulfilled Leader. I'm really thrilled today to welcome Melanie Bell to the podcast. Welcome, Melanie.

Speaker 2 0:20

Thank you, Jane. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 0:22

Oh, I'm really looking forward to our conversation. Before we start, I'm gonna share a bit about Melanie. She is Snowflake's APJ Head of Industry for telecoms, media, and entertainment. And over more than 20 years in Asia Pacific, she's built and scaled cloud businesses from zero to 100 million-plus, led large scale digital transformation programs for some of the region's largest telcos and media companies, and reinvented go-to market models from the ground up. She's worked across sales, product, marketing, consulting, and strategy, and believes that the best careers are built on experiences that stretch you, not just advance you, and we're gonna talk about that, uh, today. And Melanie is based in Singapore, and very coincidentally lives in a building I can see from my building, so we're neighbors as well, which is really nice. So welcome to The Fulfilled Leader, Melanie.

Speaker 2 1:26

Thank you, Jane.

Speaker 1:28

I'm really looking forward to our conversation today, because you are a senior leader, and today you're going to share your lived experience of being a leader, how you've come to be here, your, uh, lessons and learning along the way. And I'm really grateful that you've, uh, offered to come and do this, because it, every career is different, every career is unique, and it's so helpful for each of us to have an opportunity to kinda get a window into some aspects of a career. And, and I know you're gonna share that today. So I was wondering if you could start by just sharing a little bit about your career journey, and how, how did you come to be here?

Early Ambition And No Plan B

Speaker 2 2:11

Perhaps where I should start is,, my background. So I grew up on a small farm near Warrnambool in country Victoria, Australia. I was the eldest of five. I loved being outdoors, I loved sports, maths, and science, and almost spent as much time baking in the kitchen as I did outside. And by the age of 17, I thought I'd had my whole life mapped out. And the thing is about careers, I think in hindsight, is that they rarely unfold the way we imagine. And so for me- I was clear about what I wanted to do. I wanted to get into the Australian Defense Force Academy. It combined everything I loved, challenge, purpose, leadership, and service but then I didn't get in, and it was the biggest disappointment of my life. Mm. The disappointing thing was that I had no plan B. There was no other option that I had, sort of thought about for myself, and suddenly I, uh, I found myself really grappling with what to do next. But looking back, I think that disappointment actually became one of the greatest gr- gifts of my career. It taught me something that I couldn't have understood at 17. That is that careers never really unfold the way we think that they might. So, I ended up going off to university and studying marketing, economics, and Indonesian language, and really enjoyed that. It was a, a little bit of a challenge at the beginning because I didn't have those subjects in my background, so I really had to learn, and catch up while I studied.. The whole idea was to anchor around my language, which I really enjoyed a- and loved, and try and figure out a pathway over the next four years of where that would ultimately lead me. It was pretty challenging at the beginning, I have to say- Mm, okay given that most of my classmates, had done,, similar introductory-type subjects as part of their high school certificates. And so I was already coming from behind the line and really had to work hard to, to catch up. But I would say after my, my first year I started to, get the hang of things and could grasp the concepts. And so that seemed to come together for me, over the course of time. It was hard work. But I, I chose that, because I had no other better options at the time. Mm. But I think it maybe showed at that early age that I was thinking about incremental and adjacent experiences that I could build that would get me closer to a pathway that I thought I would enjoy, um, without necessarily knowing where my destination was going to be.

Speaker 5:32

Mm. Ju- just wanna jump in here, 'cause there's something lovely about this, about you not closing off options here. So the choosing of that double major, building on Indonesian language and then commerce really opens that up and, is a, lovely example of how we don't have to just choose one path. We can keep some doors open in our career.

Speaker 2 5:53

That... It's really well said, and I can tell you that was a very deliberate strategy, 'cause I literally had no idea what I wanted to do. I remember back in those days they had these career books. So I did this kind of meticulous exercise to sort of map out, uh, what would give me the broadest range of options, um, 'cause the book Provided pathways to entry level graduate, jobs. So I kinda did that work knowing that, it would create options for me when I didn't necessarily know where I wanted to, to go at that point in time.

Speaker 6:31

Mm. Good, and then where did that take you? Where did you go next?

Telstra Graduate Years And Confidence

Speaker 2 6:35

So following my graduation, I was accepted into Telstra's graduate program as a business graduate there. I remember my first day really clearly. There was about 20 of us, that were all flown into to Sydney. And we had a week-long induction there where we, we got to hear from senior leaders and understand different parts of the, the telecom business. The reason, Telstra appealed to me was not only could I apply my university studies, that I earned over the, the previous years, but it also has a really strong, sense of purpose, connection, and community. And it was that iconic Australian brand coupled with really being the, connective, means of which communities come together that really appealed to me. So, you know, back to what appealed about, the defense force, you know, leadership, purpose, service, perhaps those things sort of came through there as, as well. Mm. Um, but, by the end of the first week, of our graduate induction, I was convinced that they'd made a mistake in hiring me. Uh, I was a marketing economics grad that happened to speak some Indonesian, and I was sitting in a room with 19 other IT and electrical engineers who were all talking about bits and bytes and speeds and feeds. And I, I was back feeling lost again after just feeling like I'd found my footing, after the, the disappointment and setback that led me, to university. It wasn't until I'd say probably nine months, 12 months later, that it started to click for me. So Telstra does this really great thing where they rotate, the graduate group around different parts of their business and operations, so you get a really good sense of, of the value chain. So I did all sorts of things like going out to see how an exchange worked, uh, you know, how to jump for a copper pair, which probably is not as relevant skill anymore, but back then, it was, and it's quite a technical and operationally focused business. But, uh, finally, I found myself, in the customer facing, and sales rotation and at that point it all started to come together for me. I still feel that early education of, really learning and understanding and, working with clients at that early age really sort of built some foundational skills around relationships, and trust and partnerships that I've taken with me forever and, and forward. And then, Telstra gave me lots of great opportunities and, a couple of them were mid-career, which were kind of milestone, or, crossroad moments perhaps is a better way to describe. So in one instance, I chose a sideways move over a promotion that set my career on an accelerated pathway that I could never have imagined. I had an opportunity, for an overseas assignment that led me to Hong Kong and Singapore where two years, turned into nine years and counting. At that moment in, in Hong Kong, I had the opportunity to chart a new path, um, while I was there. And within that two-year assignment, there was always the opportunity to go back to Australia. But at that point in time, after 15 years with Telstra, I thought that represented,, an opportunity for me to look for other pathways within Asia, and, take the leap and chart new waters as well, which then led me to joining a, a large consulting and advisory firm. It ultimately led me to move to Singapore, and then finally led me to joining Snowflake, uh, a data and AI platform company that's operating at the center of this AI revolution, uh, where I lead the industry go-to-market, for telecom, media, and entertainment.

Speaker 11:07

Mm. Brilliant. What a fantastic journey, and, thank you for sharing that with us, for bringing us into

Values Alignment And Self Belief

Speaker 11:14

it. And we're gonna talk about two themes from it, but they really strike me as being so relevant, and one of those is about values. And I hear you talking about values right from that first decision to join the army, and then the coming into telco, and this idea of community and connection. And so it sounds like values are a very important part for you of how you work in your career, how aligned it is with your working life. Could you tell us a bit more about this, about values?

Speaker 2 11:50

My values are a really important framework of how I baseline and measure and manage decisions, so my values, if I could think of three that I hold really dearly, they would be integrity, teamwork, and stewardship. But I think integrity and teamwork are quite self-explanatory, but stewardship to me is about leaving the place and the people better than what it was when you arrived. That's how I think about it from a organizational, from a people from a process perspective. So can I have an impact that, stretches beyond, my tenure and enables the organization and the people there to be in a better, place. That's how I think about it. And I'd say, for years I heard and I hear leaders talking about being values-led and being, in tune with your values. And while I understood it intellectually, I don't think I truly comprehended the importance of knowing your values until I experienced the opposite. Maybe just to give an example, I found myself, a point in time in my career where, the environment where success was being defined was not always in ways that were aligned to my values, and it created for me a tension that I'd never quite felt before.

Speaker 13:41

Mm.

Speaker 2 13:41

And at the beginning it really made me question my own self-belief. But when I, worked through it and,, spoke to my trusted, people and,, coach- What I realized is that I didn't lose my capability, I just lost my alignment. And I think that's the distinction that it matters enormously. So it wasn't like I was less capable. Uh, it's just that I wasn't able to contribute in a way that was consistent with who I am. And so that lesson of how I felt, I think will be now a filter I'll carry forward. So not just to see the environment, but to really sense it, and, and know whether or not that environment is where I'm gonna be able to make my best contribution.

Speaker 14:40

Mm. Thank you so much for sharing this. I hear so many resonances, first of all, with my own career. I had... The, the worst moment of my career was a valued misalignment and, and I, I love the use of the word alignment. But I also really love this connection you're making between our own self-doubt that's, that can show up at work, which often we then just take real- we just think it's us, it's our problem. I've got a problem here because I can't keep up with the pace or, uh, I see leadership behavior around me that I think is different to how I think leaders behave, and there's a long list there. And it's so easy for us to internalize that as there must be something wrong with me. And what you're saying is, or, or maybe, and maybe I have a different set of values, and I hold my values to be true, and that's fine. That's good for me to hold my values to be true. I think this is such a fundamentally important part of us making choices in our career, that we keep testing that.

Speaker 2 15:45

Yeah., It took me a while to figure that out, but, now that I've felt it, I have that experience now that I, I will carry through.

Speaker 15:56

Mm. Yeah. Brilliant. Thank you. That's... It's just so helpful, I think, for us to make that connection.

Taking Career Risks That Stretch

Speaker 16:02

Let's talk about risk. You've taken some risks. We've heard that. You've risked even from going into university, choosing subjects, moving countries, taking sideways moves, and, they don't necessarily look predictable. You've taken decisions that have maybe been a different pathway to one that somebody else might have chosen, and I'd love you to talk about this and, how have those decisions, those risks paid off or not? And looking back, what are your thoughts about this idea of taking risks in our career?

Speaker 2 16:36

Yeah I think the idea of taking risks is where you will ultimately grow and stretch yourself, is how I think about risk. But of course they need to be considered risks, and there's probably two that come to mind. One in my mid-career when I was looking for my next opportunity beyond a, a frontline sales leader. So starting to progress up the corporate ladder so- so to speak. And then perhaps one more, more recent one relating to in my, time in, in Hong Kong. So maybe I can talk about the first one. So- In my mid-career, I was offered a role leading a large mobile sales team. It was a very prestigious role in the context of the business. Was an established business, established team, a prestigious title. It had, lots of people and leaders reporting to it. So, it was definitely the obvious choice. But there was an- another option that was put on the table in front of me to consider. It was a newly created role. It would be a sideways move, so there was no promotion, at least in terms of title. There was no established business, zero P&L, no team, no established playbook, nothing. But I considered this option and I thought about it carefully. I spoke to, a number of people, around the business,, externally. I did my own research and really kind of tested the mandate that they were looking for, for the successful person in this role. And so to everyone's disbelief, I chose a sideways move. I chose building something over inheriting something, 'cause building something wasn't something I'd done before. So I had to build a new team, a new product, a new go-to-market motion, new partner channels, and it was building this little business that we now know as Cloud, wi- within Telstra. But at the time, no one really knew how it was, it was going to turn out. In the end and three and a half, four years later, that business grew into over $100 million reoccurring engine. And,, significant enough to learn its, own its own P&L item in the company P&L. Uh, but you know, it wasn't the oz- obvious path for me to choose. But it was, if I reflect back, that was, the step change point of my career., I could have followed the traditional trajectory, but I chose to take a different pathway, and as a result, those new experiences exposed me to new stakeholders, to, to new technology, to new markets, to new thinking. And, that collection of experiences then was what laid the foundation for what would come next.

Speaker 20:09

So what's key about this for me is your choice to go and do something that you hadn't done before as a way of building your career experience. And I've seen this with other people in their career, that they've taken that risk of not necessarily following the ladder, but going sideways, going into something new. So, you're essentially doing a startup within a large corporate. You were stretching yourself enormously, and also being willing to take the risk because at that point, I guess you didn't know whether it was going to succeed and, and be the huge success. So, you took that risk, and that all of that probably quadrupled your learning experience in your career. It gave you a huge depth of growth and learning that enabled you to then, as you said, to go on. And so it's really,, in a career, really helpful to not necessarily see that as a linear path, that we need to look at, "What's the breadth of experience I need in order to make the C-suite?" And sometimes I'm gonna need to look for that experience elsewhere. It's not gonna show up for me in that traditional path.

Speaker 2 21:20

I, I think about it as compound interest almost. So this collection of adjacent or near adjacent experiences that you continue to build and collect and hone, ultimately when you reach a certain point in your career start to compound, how you build relationships, how you build partnerships, how you build products, how you think about value chains and, and commercial models. All of those experiences start to come together but with much higher stakes and, um... So that's how I think about it as, as compound interest because at the time it just feels like it's incrementalism, but really what you're doing is investing in your future, uh, i- in the, financial sense where you're benefiting from compound interest as those experiences start to, to collect and accelerate your capability.

Speaker 22:28

Mm. Tell us about the second risk that you took.

The Leap To Hong Kong

Speaker 2 22:31

Yeah. So, so the second one was, is a little bit more recent. And it was the decision I made to move to Hong Kong. It started a few years, so earlier. After countless flights between Melbourne and Sydney, and Melbourne and Sydney, uh, that well-worn path, I realized that I'd invested heavily in my career and building career experiences, but just couldn't shake a nagging feeling that I hadn't invested enough in myself. And I remember, speaking to, my manager at the time, and it was during, a time where Telstra had, significant interests, and operations, in Asia. And, I said to her, uh, "If there's ever any opportunity for an overseas assignment, please consider me." So I put it out, I put it out to the universe after deciding that, there's gotta be more to life than flying between Melbourne and Sydney, and, what if I could add some overseas experience to my career experiences, as well as give myself some life experience? And so it's a bit of a case of careful what you wish for, because not long after that, I was offered a two-year overseas assignment, and, made the decision to move. Now, of course it was, a transfer with a company I already, uh, was working with and knew, but, in hindsight, and particularly when I took the leap to leave, Telstra, it was a hugely risky move. I had- No established network, in that market, no local credibility- I didn't speak Cantonese or Mandarin. And so I think perhaps in, in hindsight, It was a particularly risky, but as it turns out, very rewarding decision made, and with some great life experiences and personal development experiences that I've built to complement the career experiences.

Speaker 24:45

Mm. Yeah, 'cause this is such a critical thing that we can do, uh, in our lives and careers, and I've done this as well, you know, moving my business from, from London to Singapore. Because of that wanting to blend having a, life change, and finding a way for my work to create that change, and we can do that. We can look for those opportunities to experience life in a more rich way. And also, I think the opportunity to live outside our home country is so hugely beneficial to the whole of us as a person, and our understanding of humanity. For me it's been such an enormously gorgeous growth experience.

Speaker 2 25:28

Yes. Absolutely. And it, it's given me perspectives that if I had have remained in Australia, I just wouldn't have appreciated. It's given me multiple lenses of which I not only look at my career, but also look at my life and who I am as a person as well.

Speaker 25:48

Mm-hmm. Yeah, brilliant. Brilliant.

Relationships Sponsors And Trust Building

Speaker 25:51

We've talked before about how important relationships are, and you've already mentioned this, how important you see relationships are in your working life. I hold a view that organizations are only a series of relationships, and work only gets done through relationship, even in a time of AI. I still hold this to be true. And so, I'd really love you to talk a bit about, how relationships have played a part in your career and in bringing you to this point.

Speaker 2 26:22

Yeah. Relationships have played a huge part, some of those career decisions and opportunities that I received, that I talked about before, were also due to, great leaders, great managers, great sponsors who believed in me and, worked- With me on, developing,\ my capabilities but also representing that, more broadly to give me that platform. So none of those opportunities that I spoke about earlier would've been possible without great managers, and sponsors. So that's the first thing I'd say. I think the other thing that I've learnt particularly in, uh, my time in Asia so far, is, it- the importance of relationships is even more heightened, I, I think, and I appreciate it more 'cause from a cultural perspective, that's how business is typically done in Asia, through deep trust, uh, and long-standing relationships. If I kind of think back to the Hong Kong moment when I backed myself, to stay in Hong Kong,, and, you know,, took a leap into finding my next kind of career pathway there rather than return to what I knew in Australia. Yeah, I talked about I, I had no network, no, no track record, no local credibility. I was literally starting from nothing. And so I built a plan, around, you know, connecting, networking, building relationships, and I did that coffee by coffee. I started with, a colleague there that had been in the local market a long time, and, and he introduced me to several of his network. Uh, and to my surprise, they accepted my invitation for coffee. We had a great chat, and to my surprise they, they then sponsored me or connected me to the next person that may have an interesting point of view, and so it's, it was this really neat networking effect playing out before my eyes. And I kind of thought back to my earlier time in Australia and thought, you know, I perhaps should have spent more time really thinking about how I cultivated relationships. And of course, relationships are two-way. And so I always was, taken aback with the level of generosity that people had shown by agreeing to meet this random stranger they'd been connected to for a coffee and a chat. And in most cases people said yes. Mm. That, is like something really interesting there, both from a perspective of wanting to come to that meeting and offer something of value, in return, a. at the same time also taking it upon myself to really, you know, give generously with my time as well, almost like paying, it forward. So, I think that was an important lesson and perspective that I gained when I was in a situation where I had no relationships or network and had to really, build that from nothing. And then I also think about, in business, like clients or partnerships, very early on in my sales career I realized the best way that I could, help and support my customer with their goals and, what it was they were trying to do with their business was to really learn and study their business. And I remember asking the CFO, of one of my large clients to say, "Look, I'd really love to, spend some time, really understanding how your business works. I wanna know how information flows. How do you receive orders? How do those orders get picked and packed? And then how do they make their way onto trucks and then to the other side of the country, uh, and into the hands of suppliers or end customers?" And really kinda understanding how all that worked. I was really curious. It must be my systems thinking but to my surprise the... He said, "Yeah, we'd love to, come into the, the warehouse, tomorrow. You know, wear sensible shoes. I w- we'll give you a high vis and hard hat, and I'll walk you through our operation."

Speaker 31:01

Amazing.

Speaker 2 31:01

And- that- Build trust, it build, understanding. Mm. But importantly, it was that knowledge that I was then able to harness to be able to think about better solutions, better commercial models that could help their business grow at the same time as ours.

Speaker 31:22

Mm. Yeah, fantastic. It's that sense of, building that relationship through going to where somebody is, meeting them where they are, understanding them, their model, their framework, their world, helps them to feel seen, I think, and then it's easier to have a relationship, with them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Generosity That Creates Opportunity

Speaker 31:43

I learnt a lot about the importance of generosity and giving in building a network after I read Keith Ferrazzi's book called Never Eat Alone, which is just... I think he's just on the 25th year, so he's doing- he's writing a lot about it at the moment. But right at the heart of his writing is about this idea of generosity and what you were talking about, that we don't necessarily expect that if I am generous towards this person, they'll be generous back and something will happen. But that if I'm generous to this person, I'm paying it forward, and somehow in the circular nature of generosity, something will come flow through to me at some point. And I began to practice that in my own relationship building, just thinking, "Okay, I'm just gonna start from generosity," which is a very, perfect place for me. It fits with my values. And my business world changed because I was doing something that was values-led for me, being generous, helping people in whatever way I could, and magically things would appear from somewhere else. And I never understood. There was never a linear connection- Yeah but there was something about the nature of being generous that led to other business opportunities in places I would never have imagined. And I just love that because I think it's good for the whole world if we can sit- Yeah in a generosity mindset.

Learning AI And Falling Back In

Speaker 33:07

Okay, we're coming towards the end of our conversation, but before we do, I know you've been really investing heavily personally in your own professional development, and I wonder if you could just share a little bit about what you've been doing maybe. I know you've been studying, but also how you're approaching any reading or podcasts or things like that, if you could- Yeah share that with us.

Speaker 2 33:29

Um, I'm gonna be completely honest, Jean, that I'm one of those people who buys books, self-development books, with the best intentions, and have about four on the go at any one time, but rarely finish any of them. Um, so I won't pretend I've got a curated reading list, but my, my latest that I'm working my way through is one that you recommended actually, What to Make of a Life by Jim Collins. And I, I'm really loving the concept of understanding your encodings, your unique encodings, and deploying that to create happiness in what you do. Uh, podcasts, apart from this one of course, I, I... What I do love is the Australian Financial Review's 15 Minutes with the Boss. It's, um, bite-sized. Uh, it's, it's available every week, I think. And it often features prominent leaders, you know, CEOs, founders, high-achieving figures who share career advice, life lessons, and real stories behind their success, but also the failures, the pivotal moments. Um, and I just really love the, the short, honest conversations that I find incredibly valuable.

Speaker 34:57

Mm.

Speaker 2 34:58

But you mentioned, the study or professional development. And I think that's probably something over the last few years that I have, um, really been applying myself to. It's, it started out as really wanting to deepen my, understanding around the fundamentals of artificial intelligence, you know, understanding, the engineering but also the impact on, process organizations and most importantly, humans. And so I started there with, a short course from MIT Sloan School of Management, and through completing that course, I reconnected or rediscovered my, my love of learning. I think I'd lost it for a while, maybe,, in between the years of corporate training programs and compliance and all of those kinda generic modules that we have to do, um, in large corporates. But- Just by, thinking about a topic like AI that is gonna be so profound,, in impact on our generation and our world going forward, I really wanted to understand it back to my sort of values around how can I understand it so I can apply it for, for good. And then from there, I've kind of caught the bug, I guess, and, uh, working my way through an advanced management certificate from MIT, uh, MIT Sloan School of Management. Uh, and I'm really enjoying, um, you know, the flexibility to be able to, choose the topics, um, that are most important to my work right now, rather than have a very defined curriculum like an MBA would do. But this is a little bit more agile and a- as you need. And so I'm, I'm really enjoying it so far.,

Speaker 37:04

I'm hearing a lot about this kind of regenerated love of learning. I hear you in how corporate training, in some cases, not all cases, has kind of numbed us, I think, to the idea of personal growth and learning. And also I think because careers are so hectic and busy at the moment, it can feel a bit counterintuitive to add some additional time learning things on top of that. But my own experience of doing that in my career, and I've seen this with you and other people, is that once you start, it actually re-energizes some experience of work because it brings in fresh pers- perspectives. You meet people outside of your network you wouldn't normally meet, and it just helps to widen our worldview and our work view, and it's really valuable.

Compounding Experience And Final Reflections

Speaker 37:52

Melanie, thank you so much for sharing your journey with us. There's, there's masses of takeaways for me, and I'm hearing soundbites. One that's sticking with me is this idea of compounding our experience and our career. So that's, for me, there's something about, how can I take this moment, this opportunity to gain some more experience, not knowing where that will take me, but one day knowing that each bit of those experiences will come together to support me in a role, in a moment, in a crisis. All of those moments help to build the leader that we become. And thank you so much for coming and sharing your journey and your experience with us.

Speaker 2 38:35

Thank you very much, Jane. It's a pleasure.